Regulars of my discussion group didn't at all agree with the idea the Israel promoted the Muslim Brotherhood, in order to keep it's neighboring states weak. Weak is one thing, they already were weak, collapsing chaos is another, and that's not what a settler colonial states need.
I didn't find that argument very believable either, and, btw, I employ the least amount of self censorship here, in order to cover the deepest depths, though sometimes off target, and I apologize for some clearly anti-semitic concepts in earlier posts. As a clarification, I believe it would be impossible for any religious group to create a settler state as zionists did and then have it become peaceful and democratic. It's a miracle Jews have done as well as they have in Israel. As I claim below, Jews are good at making civilization. However the concept, plan, and timing, and location were fundamentally flawed, and for that reason Israel cannot succeed. It turns out also that the best nation is the one not tied to the baggage of state, etc.
One idea approaching anti-semitism, is a sort of superiority concept. Jews culturally teach their children to be active citizens, resisting oppression (and the deepest judiasm also calls on Jews to fight the oppression of others…the basic deep rule of Judiasm is to do more for others than self…but I digress), and so on. That makes them more politically effective than their numbers would suggest. In the US they are 2% of the population, but most people believe they collectively have much more influence than that. Maybe more like 10%. And that's enough to have great impact on a centrist majoritarian government such as the USA. And of course the military giveaways to Israel are really giveaways to US military equipment makers anyway, so Israel becomes to the US Congress an excuse for another exchange of gifts and bribes, an automatic 100% vote is assured.
Is it anti-semitic to say that Jews are excellent citizens? The above argument doesn't relate to shadowy underground mafias and the like…just the ordinary rules of democratic political participation, which, sadly, many minorities and the poor generally don't take advantage of--though I am not saying that all the problems of the poor can be laid on their own doorstep for this or any other reason…but active political participation and better organization could help them.
Now, to be clear, there are also very effective lobbying/bribing organizations such as AIPAC, rich bribers, and so on, maybe even mafias as there are for other nations, and I don't approve of those things, though they are also a given in US politics, and Jews will have more impact than Palestinians due to lobbying clout rather than justice or public opinion.
Jews are smart (it isn't antisemitic to say that is it?) so AIPAC is an unusually effective organization. The problem is not with AIPAC and it's Jews (well, necessarily) but rather that lobbying like that should be illegal, elections should be publically funded, anything else should be considered bribery.
Anyway, back to the argument that Jews are active citizens...
This also means that a fair settlement of the future of Palestine--including full right of return for all Palestinian refugees--wouldn't necessarily make IP (Israel/Palestine) unlivable for the Jews. I think much Israeli/Jewish fear about this is unwarranted…I believe the Jews would ensure at minimum an IP state fair to them but probably even more profitable than the current one…as has happened in South Africa…though one does imagine in the wake of a Fair Settlement (which itself can be hardly imagined) many Jews would choose to leave IP, not necessarily allowing this fair multicultural state to be tested. But in fact Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived in peace together under Muslim rule in Palestine for most of more than a millennium, notably the Ottoman empire. So in fact the belief that this is impossible, that Arabs can't run a reasonable multicultural state is itself antisemitism toward arabs.
My discussion friends don't believe the full Chomsky argument, that Israel is mainly a US project, and it's incredible history of support in the USA stems from its importance to US military planners, and he discounts the usual conspiracy arguments and "unbelievable" effectiveness of Zionist lobbying on that.
My retired military friend didn't agree with that at all. He said the US State Department has long been hostile to Israel, as have probably a majority of the US military establishment. US Military do not see Israel as a dependable ally or client. Previous Israeli actions, such as attacking a US ship, have reinforced that feeling. He felt that Israel's success in maintaining US support had to come entirely from Zionist success in politics, as well as military industrial self-interest.
I think there may be more going on in the military than my friend concedes, but largely it is Zionist effectiveness in politics which has led to their success, as he says. And it is not antisemitic to say that Jews are active citizens, as more others should be. Nor that AIPAC is an effective briber, and there shouldn't be such things.
I didn't find that argument very believable either, and, btw, I employ the least amount of self censorship here, in order to cover the deepest depths, though sometimes off target, and I apologize for some clearly anti-semitic concepts in earlier posts. As a clarification, I believe it would be impossible for any religious group to create a settler state as zionists did and then have it become peaceful and democratic. It's a miracle Jews have done as well as they have in Israel. As I claim below, Jews are good at making civilization. However the concept, plan, and timing, and location were fundamentally flawed, and for that reason Israel cannot succeed. It turns out also that the best nation is the one not tied to the baggage of state, etc.
One idea approaching anti-semitism, is a sort of superiority concept. Jews culturally teach their children to be active citizens, resisting oppression (and the deepest judiasm also calls on Jews to fight the oppression of others…the basic deep rule of Judiasm is to do more for others than self…but I digress), and so on. That makes them more politically effective than their numbers would suggest. In the US they are 2% of the population, but most people believe they collectively have much more influence than that. Maybe more like 10%. And that's enough to have great impact on a centrist majoritarian government such as the USA. And of course the military giveaways to Israel are really giveaways to US military equipment makers anyway, so Israel becomes to the US Congress an excuse for another exchange of gifts and bribes, an automatic 100% vote is assured.
Is it anti-semitic to say that Jews are excellent citizens? The above argument doesn't relate to shadowy underground mafias and the like…just the ordinary rules of democratic political participation, which, sadly, many minorities and the poor generally don't take advantage of--though I am not saying that all the problems of the poor can be laid on their own doorstep for this or any other reason…but active political participation and better organization could help them.
Now, to be clear, there are also very effective lobbying/bribing organizations such as AIPAC, rich bribers, and so on, maybe even mafias as there are for other nations, and I don't approve of those things, though they are also a given in US politics, and Jews will have more impact than Palestinians due to lobbying clout rather than justice or public opinion.
Jews are smart (it isn't antisemitic to say that is it?) so AIPAC is an unusually effective organization. The problem is not with AIPAC and it's Jews (well, necessarily) but rather that lobbying like that should be illegal, elections should be publically funded, anything else should be considered bribery.
Anyway, back to the argument that Jews are active citizens...
This also means that a fair settlement of the future of Palestine--including full right of return for all Palestinian refugees--wouldn't necessarily make IP (Israel/Palestine) unlivable for the Jews. I think much Israeli/Jewish fear about this is unwarranted…I believe the Jews would ensure at minimum an IP state fair to them but probably even more profitable than the current one…as has happened in South Africa…though one does imagine in the wake of a Fair Settlement (which itself can be hardly imagined) many Jews would choose to leave IP, not necessarily allowing this fair multicultural state to be tested. But in fact Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived in peace together under Muslim rule in Palestine for most of more than a millennium, notably the Ottoman empire. So in fact the belief that this is impossible, that Arabs can't run a reasonable multicultural state is itself antisemitism toward arabs.
My discussion friends don't believe the full Chomsky argument, that Israel is mainly a US project, and it's incredible history of support in the USA stems from its importance to US military planners, and he discounts the usual conspiracy arguments and "unbelievable" effectiveness of Zionist lobbying on that.
My retired military friend didn't agree with that at all. He said the US State Department has long been hostile to Israel, as have probably a majority of the US military establishment. US Military do not see Israel as a dependable ally or client. Previous Israeli actions, such as attacking a US ship, have reinforced that feeling. He felt that Israel's success in maintaining US support had to come entirely from Zionist success in politics, as well as military industrial self-interest.
I think there may be more going on in the military than my friend concedes, but largely it is Zionist effectiveness in politics which has led to their success, as he says. And it is not antisemitic to say that Jews are active citizens, as more others should be. Nor that AIPAC is an effective briber, and there shouldn't be such things.
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